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	<title>Comments on: Karma: Black and White, or Shades of Gray?</title>
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		<title>By: Prue</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/karma-black-and-white-or-shades-of-gray/comment-page-1/#comment-1924</link>
		<dc:creator>Prue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2682#comment-1924</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[“It does seem that the concept of karma in it’s contact with Judeo-Christian morality becomes less about the concept of personal responsibility and binding that comes from our acts and has instead become a very punitive concept synonymous with sin and it’s punishment. It appears that many Hindu concepts and religious attitudes take a very Christian flavor when practiced in the West.”

I think this is a very relevant point. The Christian perspective which permeates our society causes many people to think of karma as a punishment that is imposed on us by some outside force – some sort of universal judge and law enforcer. 

It is not God who is punishing anyone who does not follow His laws, or His command. Our actions can either bind us or liberate us. We are punishing ourselves, actions are sinful if they degrade the soul. 

Should we judge an outcome as good or bad based on the material benefit to us? Does theft make us richer? Does giving charity make us poorer? It depends on your perspective and what you consider to be valuable. Judged from a material point of view, stealing money will give us more money, and giving charity means we have less money. But if our real wealth is found in the soul and not in our material possessions, theft will impoverish us and charity will enrich us.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“It does seem that the concept of karma in it’s contact with Judeo-Christian morality becomes less about the concept of personal responsibility and binding that comes from our acts and has instead become a very punitive concept synonymous with sin and it’s punishment. It appears that many Hindu concepts and religious attitudes take a very Christian flavor when practiced in the West.”</p>
<p>I think this is a very relevant point. The Christian perspective which permeates our society causes many people to think of karma as a punishment that is imposed on us by some outside force – some sort of universal judge and law enforcer. </p>
<p>It is not God who is punishing anyone who does not follow His laws, or His command. Our actions can either bind us or liberate us. We are punishing ourselves, actions are sinful if they degrade the soul. </p>
<p>Should we judge an outcome as good or bad based on the material benefit to us? Does theft make us richer? Does giving charity make us poorer? It depends on your perspective and what you consider to be valuable. Judged from a material point of view, stealing money will give us more money, and giving charity means we have less money. But if our real wealth is found in the soul and not in our material possessions, theft will impoverish us and charity will enrich us.</p>
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		<title>By: Amara dasa</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/karma-black-and-white-or-shades-of-gray/comment-page-1/#comment-1905</link>
		<dc:creator>Amara dasa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2682#comment-1905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The universe is not a MACHINE, it is a mother!
She takes personal care when you show personal care. And she allows you the wisdom to lessen the pain and negative impact of your karma when you show proactive desire to improve yourself.&quot;


Great reply!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The universe is not a MACHINE, it is a mother!<br />
She takes personal care when you show personal care. And she allows you the wisdom to lessen the pain and negative impact of your karma when you show proactive desire to improve yourself.&#8221;</p>
<p>Great reply!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Vic DiCara / Vraja Kishor</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/karma-black-and-white-or-shades-of-gray/comment-page-1/#comment-1902</link>
		<dc:creator>Vic DiCara / Vraja Kishor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 04:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2682#comment-1902</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that Rupa Goswami has discussed Karma with citation from Padma Purana in his beautiful Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu. Actually it is my opinion that his analysis is far more insightful than anything jyotish provides on it&#039;s own. Jyotish is merely the &quot;eye&quot; of the Veda. It relies on the puranas, etc. for it&#039;s foundations.

The dynamics of karma from a jyotish perspective - practical rather than philosophical are, IMO:

a) you are constantly in the process of creating it - therefore you have capacity to alter your future

b) you cannot alter what you&#039;ve already done in the past - there there are some punishments and rewards that you cannot escape or change.

c) you can ALWAYS change how you REACT to those punishments and rewards and thus the NEW karma / future you build.

On another angle....

i) Jyotish often identifies Karma as being adridha dridha/adridha or dridha. This is far more of a practical than a philosophical distinction. Sometimes we see only a few planetary combinations indicating a particular karmic result and we call that &quot;adridha karma&quot; or something which is rather weak and may not even tangibly manifest (may only be felt or sensed). Or sometimes we see more than a few yogas and etc. pointing to the same karmic result and we call that &quot;dridha/adridha&quot; - it is &quot;fairly solid&quot; that it will tangibly result in the predictable shape. Finally, we sometimes see lots of yogas etc. pointing in to the same karmic result and we term that &quot;dridha karma&quot; - it&#039;s going to happen, and it will be obvious.

ii) some have said (not sure if i agree) that you can easily &quot;change&quot; adridha karma, it&#039;s somewhat possible to change dridha-adridha karma, and it&#039;s impossible save for a miracle to change dridha karma. I think I disagree only philosophically but not practically. I think what is philosophically happening is that it is easiest to REACT in a proactive and wise manner when the karma is weaker or more &quot;adridha&quot; and therefore it appears that this karma can be &quot;changed&quot; - philosophically speaking, previous actions are already done, they can&#039;t be undone, it can&#039;t be changed.

iii) BUT!!!!!!

The universe is not a MACHINE, it is a mother!

She takes personal care when you show personal care. And she allows you the wisdom to lessen the pain and negative impact of your karma when you show proactive desire to improve yourself.

Therefore I have found the prescription of planetary mantras to be particularly helpful and useful for my astrology clients.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that Rupa Goswami has discussed Karma with citation from Padma Purana in his beautiful Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu. Actually it is my opinion that his analysis is far more insightful than anything jyotish provides on it&#8217;s own. Jyotish is merely the &#8220;eye&#8221; of the Veda. It relies on the puranas, etc. for it&#8217;s foundations.</p>
<p>The dynamics of karma from a jyotish perspective &#8211; practical rather than philosophical are, IMO:</p>
<p>a) you are constantly in the process of creating it &#8211; therefore you have capacity to alter your future</p>
<p>b) you cannot alter what you&#8217;ve already done in the past &#8211; there there are some punishments and rewards that you cannot escape or change.</p>
<p>c) you can ALWAYS change how you REACT to those punishments and rewards and thus the NEW karma / future you build.</p>
<p>On another angle&#8230;.</p>
<p>i) Jyotish often identifies Karma as being adridha dridha/adridha or dridha. This is far more of a practical than a philosophical distinction. Sometimes we see only a few planetary combinations indicating a particular karmic result and we call that &#8220;adridha karma&#8221; or something which is rather weak and may not even tangibly manifest (may only be felt or sensed). Or sometimes we see more than a few yogas and etc. pointing to the same karmic result and we call that &#8220;dridha/adridha&#8221; &#8211; it is &#8220;fairly solid&#8221; that it will tangibly result in the predictable shape. Finally, we sometimes see lots of yogas etc. pointing in to the same karmic result and we term that &#8220;dridha karma&#8221; &#8211; it&#8217;s going to happen, and it will be obvious.</p>
<p>ii) some have said (not sure if i agree) that you can easily &#8220;change&#8221; adridha karma, it&#8217;s somewhat possible to change dridha-adridha karma, and it&#8217;s impossible save for a miracle to change dridha karma. I think I disagree only philosophically but not practically. I think what is philosophically happening is that it is easiest to REACT in a proactive and wise manner when the karma is weaker or more &#8220;adridha&#8221; and therefore it appears that this karma can be &#8220;changed&#8221; &#8211; philosophically speaking, previous actions are already done, they can&#8217;t be undone, it can&#8217;t be changed.</p>
<p>iii) BUT!!!!!!</p>
<p>The universe is not a MACHINE, it is a mother!</p>
<p>She takes personal care when you show personal care. And she allows you the wisdom to lessen the pain and negative impact of your karma when you show proactive desire to improve yourself.</p>
<p>Therefore I have found the prescription of planetary mantras to be particularly helpful and useful for my astrology clients.</p>
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		<title>By: Vic DiCara / Vraja Kishor</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/karma-black-and-white-or-shades-of-gray/comment-page-1/#comment-1901</link>
		<dc:creator>Vic DiCara / Vraja Kishor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 04:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2682#comment-1901</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am (hopefully) a Vaishnava and (hopefully) a Jyotishi. I submitted an article. I hope you don&#039;t consider it too commonish or non-scholastic. I dread scholastic writing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am (hopefully) a Vaishnava and (hopefully) a Jyotishi. I submitted an article. I hope you don&#8217;t consider it too commonish or non-scholastic. I dread scholastic writing.</p>
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		<title>By: Amara dasa</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/karma-black-and-white-or-shades-of-gray/comment-page-1/#comment-1897</link>
		<dc:creator>Amara dasa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2682#comment-1897</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Karma is infinitely complex and not well understood by the simple-minded.  Furthermore, people tend to minimize or overlook the &quot;sister&quot; factor in reincarnation--kama.  Indeed, it is kama or desire that impells our karma or actions.  Another important understanding that is missing here but familiar to Vaishnavas and other spiritualists is the idea that bad karma is often a blessing in regard to spiritual life whereas good karma can easily become an impediment.  I didn&#039;t find any deep realizations about karma in this article.  If anything, the author seems mostly dismissive of it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karma is infinitely complex and not well understood by the simple-minded.  Furthermore, people tend to minimize or overlook the &#8220;sister&#8221; factor in reincarnation&#8211;kama.  Indeed, it is kama or desire that impells our karma or actions.  Another important understanding that is missing here but familiar to Vaishnavas and other spiritualists is the idea that bad karma is often a blessing in regard to spiritual life whereas good karma can easily become an impediment.  I didn&#8217;t find any deep realizations about karma in this article.  If anything, the author seems mostly dismissive of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kula-pavana</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/karma-black-and-white-or-shades-of-gray/comment-page-1/#comment-1896</link>
		<dc:creator>Kula-pavana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2682#comment-1896</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another issue that needs to be raised is the (common among devotees) mixing up of karma with vikarma. 
BG 4.17 clearly says:
karmaṇo hy api boddhavyaḿ
boddhavyaḿ ca vikarmaṇaḥ
akarmaṇaś ca boddhavyaḿ
gahanā karmaṇo gatiḥ
&quot;The intricacies of action are very hard to understand. Therefore one should know properly what action is (karma), what forbidden action is (vikarma), and what inaction is (akarma).&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another issue that needs to be raised is the (common among devotees) mixing up of karma with vikarma.<br />
BG 4.17 clearly says:<br />
karmaṇo hy api boddhavyaḿ<br />
boddhavyaḿ ca vikarmaṇaḥ<br />
akarmaṇaś ca boddhavyaḿ<br />
gahanā karmaṇo gatiḥ<br />
&#8220;The intricacies of action are very hard to understand. Therefore one should know properly what action is (karma), what forbidden action is (vikarma), and what inaction is (akarma).&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Kula-pavana</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/karma-black-and-white-or-shades-of-gray/comment-page-1/#comment-1895</link>
		<dc:creator>Kula-pavana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2682#comment-1895</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Living Entity: &quot;In fact, if we understand the concept of the material world being God’s program for the evolution and reformation of disintegrated energies, we will have to conclude that “bad things” ALWAYS happen for good reason inasmuch as karmic reactions are all part of the Lord’s reformatory measures for redirecting such misdirected energies.&quot;

Using this type of thinking we must conclude for example that Soviet and German concentration camps which exterminated millions of people happened for a good reason and had nothing to do with volitionary activities of certain people. 

This type of misguided thinking reduces everything to &lt;strong&gt;reaction&lt;/strong&gt; only and makes no provision for volitionary &lt;strong&gt;action&lt;/strong&gt; on behalf of living entities.

Good illustration as to why such articles about karma are important for devotees to read and discuss.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Living Entity: &#8220;In fact, if we understand the concept of the material world being God’s program for the evolution and reformation of disintegrated energies, we will have to conclude that “bad things” ALWAYS happen for good reason inasmuch as karmic reactions are all part of the Lord’s reformatory measures for redirecting such misdirected energies.&#8221;</p>
<p>Using this type of thinking we must conclude for example that Soviet and German concentration camps which exterminated millions of people happened for a good reason and had nothing to do with volitionary activities of certain people. </p>
<p>This type of misguided thinking reduces everything to <strong>reaction</strong> only and makes no provision for volitionary <strong>action</strong> on behalf of living entities.</p>
<p>Good illustration as to why such articles about karma are important for devotees to read and discuss.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Kula-pavana</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/karma-black-and-white-or-shades-of-gray/comment-page-1/#comment-1894</link>
		<dc:creator>Kula-pavana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2682#comment-1894</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In general I find the article quite interesting because the simplistic understanding of karma is very common among the devotees, often resulting in undesirable behavior. In the extremal cases devotees totally minimize the volitional element of our actions, or excuse improper behavior of people as &#039;karmic instrument&#039;. 

Supposedly Srila Prabhupada chastised one of his disciples for being angry at something that looked like a clear case of bad behavior of one of his godbrothers by saying: &quot;“Don&#039;t be unhappy at the instrument of your karma” or something to that effect (I was never able to find an exact quote and context). That in turn led to all kinds of &#039;justifications&#039; such as &#039;the abused gurukulis (or women) had it coming, so we should not blame the abusers&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In general I find the article quite interesting because the simplistic understanding of karma is very common among the devotees, often resulting in undesirable behavior. In the extremal cases devotees totally minimize the volitional element of our actions, or excuse improper behavior of people as &#8216;karmic instrument&#8217;. </p>
<p>Supposedly Srila Prabhupada chastised one of his disciples for being angry at something that looked like a clear case of bad behavior of one of his godbrothers by saying: &#8220;“Don&#8217;t be unhappy at the instrument of your karma” or something to that effect (I was never able to find an exact quote and context). That in turn led to all kinds of &#8216;justifications&#8217; such as &#8216;the abused gurukulis (or women) had it coming, so we should not blame the abusers&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Kula-pavana</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/karma-black-and-white-or-shades-of-gray/comment-page-1/#comment-1893</link>
		<dc:creator>Kula-pavana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2682#comment-1893</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Living Entity: &quot;Second only to the Christians, I find western Buddhists as the most unlikely candidates for the Vaishnava outreach programs. Targeting them with Gaudiya propaganda is waste of time.&quot;

Once people have a well formed approach to life they are happy with it is very difficult to change their faith. Still, it can be done by showing them the beauty of bhakti and the wonderful qualities of pure devotees. 

Most of the devotees I met in life came from a Christian background, some were Jewish, but none were from a Muslim background. So perhaps your generalisation above is not based in real experience.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Living Entity: &#8220;Second only to the Christians, I find western Buddhists as the most unlikely candidates for the Vaishnava outreach programs. Targeting them with Gaudiya propaganda is waste of time.&#8221;</p>
<p>Once people have a well formed approach to life they are happy with it is very difficult to change their faith. Still, it can be done by showing them the beauty of bhakti and the wonderful qualities of pure devotees. </p>
<p>Most of the devotees I met in life came from a Christian background, some were Jewish, but none were from a Muslim background. So perhaps your generalisation above is not based in real experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Gopakumar das</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/karma-black-and-white-or-shades-of-gray/comment-page-1/#comment-1891</link>
		<dc:creator>Gopakumar das</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2682#comment-1891</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[also, &quot;waste of your time&quot; implies that one&#039;s time is only used valuably if it is used in the successful conversion of others to your way of thinking.  Is this one&#039;s objective in preaching?  You might find that conversing with others honestly is never a waste of time.  It might be helpful to &lt;em&gt;you&lt;/em&gt;, not just to them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>also, &#8220;waste of your time&#8221; implies that one&#8217;s time is only used valuably if it is used in the successful conversion of others to your way of thinking.  Is this one&#8217;s objective in preaching?  You might find that conversing with others honestly is never a waste of time.  It might be helpful to <em>you</em>, not just to them.</p>
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