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	<title>Comments on: Mythos, Logos, and the God Beyond God</title>
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		<title>By: Robotmule</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/mythos-logos-and-the-god-beyond-god/comment-page-1/#comment-6647</link>
		<dc:creator>Robotmule</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2010 11:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2549#comment-6647</guid>
		<description>I like the approach of Immanuel Velikovsky. It reminds me of the Terence Mckenna insight that &quot;reality&quot; consists of language. Language is the actual building block of Maya - almost like a computer graphics system. This also relates to the relevance and connection between Sound/Language/Mantra.

So, every culture has its own &quot;graphics&quot; and that was their particular spiritual connection relative in Time/Space. Every civilization is a natural personal emanation of its particular place, like plant growth. The point is that all of these manifestations are like different cartoons of Maya. Just look at the cartoon of the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Industrial Age, The Nazis, The USA. Its all brilliant aesthetic humour provided by the Supersoul. So, now with the global &quot;cyberdimensional&quot; network and instant info, &quot;history&quot; in a certain sense has effectively come to an end on this planet. 

So, this gives the people of this planet to effectively choose their &quot;reality&quot; and &quot;deities&quot; etc.... 

It is effectively already happening - Dawkins deifies Darwin, children deify Spiderman (Still Vedic Knowledge holds true - &quot;Those in the mode of Passion worship the &quot;demons&quot; etc....), but what makes Krsna Consciousness perfect is that the person of Krsna and the &quot;stories&quot; as the Supreme Person are based on the foundation of all Spiritual mellows and prime archetypical relationships, therefore the Vedic Information is truly &quot;fountainhead&quot; information and knowledge. I mean, what do any of these debaters (Religion vs. Atheism) have to offer except another limited mundane worldview? What can the Vedas actually offer ? Limitless expansion of knowledge, bliss and existence due to a perfect fundamental systemization of Absolute Reality! It&#039;s great ! I cannot understand why none of these debaters touch on the Vedas. This is simply a question of conditionality and perhaps innate envy of the Supreme Person. It is actually ridiculous how they refuse to acknowledge it. It is literally like it is not yet a part of their animation to enter it (In fact it is exactly this - they haven&#039;t been graced) But they will, because inside every single heart of all of these people resides the Paramatma Visnu expansion, so it is not something that they can escape, just like you cannot escape your brain whilst you are in a &quot;meat body&quot;.  

All that needs to happen is a &quot;re-language&quot; of Vedic Knowledge. Even though the language is already actually perfect, still it needs to be acclimatized for the supposed &quot;modern human&quot;. Then the cartoon might change a bit. Futurama! (Get it : Futu - &quot;Rama&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the approach of Immanuel Velikovsky. It reminds me of the Terence Mckenna insight that &#8220;reality&#8221; consists of language. Language is the actual building block of Maya &#8211; almost like a computer graphics system. This also relates to the relevance and connection between Sound/Language/Mantra.</p>
<p>So, every culture has its own &#8220;graphics&#8221; and that was their particular spiritual connection relative in Time/Space. Every civilization is a natural personal emanation of its particular place, like plant growth. The point is that all of these manifestations are like different cartoons of Maya. Just look at the cartoon of the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Industrial Age, The Nazis, The USA. Its all brilliant aesthetic humour provided by the Supersoul. So, now with the global &#8220;cyberdimensional&#8221; network and instant info, &#8220;history&#8221; in a certain sense has effectively come to an end on this planet. </p>
<p>So, this gives the people of this planet to effectively choose their &#8220;reality&#8221; and &#8220;deities&#8221; etc&#8230;. </p>
<p>It is effectively already happening &#8211; Dawkins deifies Darwin, children deify Spiderman (Still Vedic Knowledge holds true &#8211; &#8220;Those in the mode of Passion worship the &#8220;demons&#8221; etc&#8230;.), but what makes Krsna Consciousness perfect is that the person of Krsna and the &#8220;stories&#8221; as the Supreme Person are based on the foundation of all Spiritual mellows and prime archetypical relationships, therefore the Vedic Information is truly &#8220;fountainhead&#8221; information and knowledge. I mean, what do any of these debaters (Religion vs. Atheism) have to offer except another limited mundane worldview? What can the Vedas actually offer ? Limitless expansion of knowledge, bliss and existence due to a perfect fundamental systemization of Absolute Reality! It&#8217;s great ! I cannot understand why none of these debaters touch on the Vedas. This is simply a question of conditionality and perhaps innate envy of the Supreme Person. It is actually ridiculous how they refuse to acknowledge it. It is literally like it is not yet a part of their animation to enter it (In fact it is exactly this &#8211; they haven&#8217;t been graced) But they will, because inside every single heart of all of these people resides the Paramatma Visnu expansion, so it is not something that they can escape, just like you cannot escape your brain whilst you are in a &#8220;meat body&#8221;.  </p>
<p>All that needs to happen is a &#8220;re-language&#8221; of Vedic Knowledge. Even though the language is already actually perfect, still it needs to be acclimatized for the supposed &#8220;modern human&#8221;. Then the cartoon might change a bit. Futurama! (Get it : Futu &#8211; &#8220;Rama&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: Kula-pavana</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/mythos-logos-and-the-god-beyond-god/comment-page-1/#comment-1802</link>
		<dc:creator>Kula-pavana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2549#comment-1802</guid>
		<description>In 1950, Immanuel Velikovsky culminated decades of research with a book titled Worlds in Collision that &quot;proposes that many myths and traditions of ancient peoples and cultures are based on actual events.&quot; His approach was interdisciplinary, a rarity in the 20th century, taking into account astronomy, physics, chemistry, psychology, ancient history, and comparative mythology.

He noted, for example, that Venus, the second brightest object in the night sky, was not mentioned by the earliest astronomers. He proposed that the planet was a newcomer to our solar system, a comet, appearing in historical times with an irregular orbit that caused catastrophic events on our own planet.

Coming in close contact with the Earth, the latter&#039;s rotation altered, making it appear that The Sun had stood still, a phenomenon reported on in the Book of Josue. What has come to be known as Joshua&#039;s Long Day is corroborated by the texts of the ancient Chinese, Japanese, Egyptians, Babylonians, and Mayans; the East Asians reporting a extremely long sunset, the Mexicans reporting an extremely long sunrise.

Immanuel Velikovsky was too imminent a scholar to be dismissed outright as a kook, and he counted some respected people among his friends. (See The Einstein-Velikovsky Correspondence). Nevertheless, his Catastrophism was rejected outright by a scientific establishment that couldn&#039;t stomach an interdisciplinary challenge to its dogmatic Uniformitarianism, even after Velikovsky&#039;s predictions about the temperature of Venus and radio activity from Jupiter were proven true.
From http://www.lewrockwell.com/snyder-joshua/snyder-joshua21.1.h tml</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 1950, Immanuel Velikovsky culminated decades of research with a book titled Worlds in Collision that &#8220;proposes that many myths and traditions of ancient peoples and cultures are based on actual events.&#8221; His approach was interdisciplinary, a rarity in the 20th century, taking into account astronomy, physics, chemistry, psychology, ancient history, and comparative mythology.</p>
<p>He noted, for example, that Venus, the second brightest object in the night sky, was not mentioned by the earliest astronomers. He proposed that the planet was a newcomer to our solar system, a comet, appearing in historical times with an irregular orbit that caused catastrophic events on our own planet.</p>
<p>Coming in close contact with the Earth, the latter&#8217;s rotation altered, making it appear that The Sun had stood still, a phenomenon reported on in the Book of Josue. What has come to be known as Joshua&#8217;s Long Day is corroborated by the texts of the ancient Chinese, Japanese, Egyptians, Babylonians, and Mayans; the East Asians reporting a extremely long sunset, the Mexicans reporting an extremely long sunrise.</p>
<p>Immanuel Velikovsky was too imminent a scholar to be dismissed outright as a kook, and he counted some respected people among his friends. (See The Einstein-Velikovsky Correspondence). Nevertheless, his Catastrophism was rejected outright by a scientific establishment that couldn&#8217;t stomach an interdisciplinary challenge to its dogmatic Uniformitarianism, even after Velikovsky&#8217;s predictions about the temperature of Venus and radio activity from Jupiter were proven true.<br />
From <a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/snyder-joshua/snyder-joshua21.1.h" rel="nofollow">http://www.lewrockwell.com/snyder-joshua/snyder-joshua21.1.h</a> tml</p>
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		<title>By: Citta Hari dasa</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/mythos-logos-and-the-god-beyond-god/comment-page-1/#comment-1796</link>
		<dc:creator>Citta Hari dasa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2549#comment-1796</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The goal of both Karen Armstrong and Richard Dawkins is selling lots of books. Discovering the truth is low on their list of priorities.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


This seems quite presumptuous to me. Do you know them well enough to say what their intentions are? The more generous view, and perhaps even more accurate, is that they are both putting what they consider to be the truth out there for the benefit of others. That the truth they put out there is not up to the standard of the Bhagavata does not mean they are only out to sell books. And I must say that your citing the Bhagavata to make your point seems a bit fundamentalist to me as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The goal of both Karen Armstrong and Richard Dawkins is selling lots of books. Discovering the truth is low on their list of priorities.</p></blockquote>
<p>This seems quite presumptuous to me. Do you know them well enough to say what their intentions are? The more generous view, and perhaps even more accurate, is that they are both putting what they consider to be the truth out there for the benefit of others. That the truth they put out there is not up to the standard of the Bhagavata does not mean they are only out to sell books. And I must say that your citing the Bhagavata to make your point seems a bit fundamentalist to me as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Prue</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/mythos-logos-and-the-god-beyond-god/comment-page-1/#comment-1794</link>
		<dc:creator>Prue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2549#comment-1794</guid>
		<description>The word myth comes from the greek word mythos, which originally meant speech or story. In the modern scientific age, logos or reason has come to be accepted as the only valid method of understanding the truth. Thus a myth has come to mean a story that is not true.

The modern fundamentalist scientists will accept only empirical, mathematical, reason as ‘truth’. Because the religious myths do not correspond to our current empirical understanding of the world, they are considered false.

So Armstrong voices the oh so popular view that – “Evolution has indeed dealt a blow to the idea of a benign creator, literally conceived. It tells us that there is no Intelligence controlling the cosmos.”

It may be the popular view, but it is nonsense. Evolution is a process of creation. It is an intelligent process. Evolution gives no scientific proof or conclusion as to the presence or absence of a benign creator. 

The goal of both Karen Armstrong and Richard Dawkins is selling lots of books. Discovering the truth is low on their list of priorities.

As Srimad Bhagavatam 12.3.38 says – (In kali yuga) – “Those who know nothing about religion will mount a high seat and presume to speak on religious principles.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The word myth comes from the greek word mythos, which originally meant speech or story. In the modern scientific age, logos or reason has come to be accepted as the only valid method of understanding the truth. Thus a myth has come to mean a story that is not true.</p>
<p>The modern fundamentalist scientists will accept only empirical, mathematical, reason as ‘truth’. Because the religious myths do not correspond to our current empirical understanding of the world, they are considered false.</p>
<p>So Armstrong voices the oh so popular view that – “Evolution has indeed dealt a blow to the idea of a benign creator, literally conceived. It tells us that there is no Intelligence controlling the cosmos.”</p>
<p>It may be the popular view, but it is nonsense. Evolution is a process of creation. It is an intelligent process. Evolution gives no scientific proof or conclusion as to the presence or absence of a benign creator. </p>
<p>The goal of both Karen Armstrong and Richard Dawkins is selling lots of books. Discovering the truth is low on their list of priorities.</p>
<p>As Srimad Bhagavatam 12.3.38 says – (In kali yuga) – “Those who know nothing about religion will mount a high seat and presume to speak on religious principles.”</p>
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		<title>By: Nitaisundara</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/mythos-logos-and-the-god-beyond-god/comment-page-1/#comment-1785</link>
		<dc:creator>Nitaisundara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2549#comment-1785</guid>
		<description>I agree that this debate usually goes nowhere, but I can appreciate when people like Karen Armstrong offer something that breaks free the standard back and forth of the two extremes. She is a big name and this article appeared int he Wall Street Journal, I think it is good to see someone with such potential influence making points about how religion is an entirely different way of knowing. These kind of deeper points totally undercut the regular ho-hum discussion.

At the same time, like Gaura-vijaya and Amara pointed out, Armstrong almost always makes pretty clearly secular statements in the midst of her defense of religion. At best she seems to lean towards some monistic transcendence. Everything I have read from her has always had this element of subtly demeaning traditional views of religion in favor of a more mundane (and therefore more palatable to many) understanding. I have also seen some pretty extreme historical inaccuracies in one of her books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that this debate usually goes nowhere, but I can appreciate when people like Karen Armstrong offer something that breaks free the standard back and forth of the two extremes. She is a big name and this article appeared int he Wall Street Journal, I think it is good to see someone with such potential influence making points about how religion is an entirely different way of knowing. These kind of deeper points totally undercut the regular ho-hum discussion.</p>
<p>At the same time, like Gaura-vijaya and Amara pointed out, Armstrong almost always makes pretty clearly secular statements in the midst of her defense of religion. At best she seems to lean towards some monistic transcendence. Everything I have read from her has always had this element of subtly demeaning traditional views of religion in favor of a more mundane (and therefore more palatable to many) understanding. I have also seen some pretty extreme historical inaccuracies in one of her books.</p>
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		<title>By: Kula-pavana</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/mythos-logos-and-the-god-beyond-god/comment-page-1/#comment-1784</link>
		<dc:creator>Kula-pavana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2549#comment-1784</guid>
		<description>God is like one of those 3-D pictures: if you just stare at the little dots all you will ever see is little dots. You have to focus past the little dots to see Him.

These theism vs. atheism debates are more or less a waste of time. We all see what we want to see and don&#039;t see what we don&#039;t want to see. 

In the so called primitive societies there were no atheists because they all learned from the earliest days to see past the little dots in front of their nose. The freedom of living in the material world means that one person can say with 100% conviction that there is no God, and another person can be equally certain that God is in his heart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God is like one of those 3-D pictures: if you just stare at the little dots all you will ever see is little dots. You have to focus past the little dots to see Him.</p>
<p>These theism vs. atheism debates are more or less a waste of time. We all see what we want to see and don&#8217;t see what we don&#8217;t want to see. </p>
<p>In the so called primitive societies there were no atheists because they all learned from the earliest days to see past the little dots in front of their nose. The freedom of living in the material world means that one person can say with 100% conviction that there is no God, and another person can be equally certain that God is in his heart.</p>
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		<title>By: Gaura-Vijaya</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/mythos-logos-and-the-god-beyond-god/comment-page-1/#comment-1783</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaura-Vijaya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 01:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2549#comment-1783</guid>
		<description>Dawkins in his reply is so childish saying that nature never violates laws of physics: I am appalled at his naive understanding of science.I am disillusioned with many of these so called scientists like Dawkins, especially after meeting some very humble scientists and mathematicians, who acknowledge that we know very little even though they are not committed to any religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dawkins in his reply is so childish saying that nature never violates laws of physics: I am appalled at his naive understanding of science.I am disillusioned with many of these so called scientists like Dawkins, especially after meeting some very humble scientists and mathematicians, who acknowledge that we know very little even though they are not committed to any religion.</p>
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		<title>By: swami bv tripurari</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/mythos-logos-and-the-god-beyond-god/comment-page-1/#comment-1782</link>
		<dc:creator>swami bv tripurari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2549#comment-1782</guid>
		<description>Well after all, Karen left the convent only to become a popular, watered down voice for religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well after all, Karen left the convent only to become a popular, watered down voice for religion.</p>
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		<title>By: Gaura-Vijaya dasa</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/mythos-logos-and-the-god-beyond-god/comment-page-1/#comment-1781</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaura-Vijaya dasa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2549#comment-1781</guid>
		<description>I think while there is merit to the stand Karen has taken, stating that myth is just a early form of psychology is too extreme a position to take. Certainly &quot;myths&quot; cannot be quantified and measured empirically, but they may be more than just therapeutic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think while there is merit to the stand Karen has taken, stating that myth is just a early form of psychology is too extreme a position to take. Certainly &#8220;myths&#8221; cannot be quantified and measured empirically, but they may be more than just therapeutic.</p>
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		<title>By: Amara dasa</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/mythos-logos-and-the-god-beyond-god/comment-page-1/#comment-1780</link>
		<dc:creator>Amara dasa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2549#comment-1780</guid>
		<description>I still don&#039;t buy into this whole &quot;mythology&quot; thing.  The very premise seems very atheistic to me and I really doubt if ancient Greeks and Romans thought of their gods as &quot;not factual but primarily therapeutic.&quot;  Give me a break!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still don&#8217;t buy into this whole &#8220;mythology&#8221; thing.  The very premise seems very atheistic to me and I really doubt if ancient Greeks and Romans thought of their gods as &#8220;not factual but primarily therapeutic.&#8221;  Give me a break!</p>
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