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	<title>Comments on: Review: Seeking God in Science</title>
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		<title>By: Gaura-Vijaya dasa</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/review-seeking-god-in-science/comment-page-1/#comment-1837</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaura-Vijaya dasa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 01:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2653#comment-1837</guid>
		<description>Science cannot directly tell about God. God has transcendent and imminent aspects and hints towards his imminence can be found in science. That is only for a person with that feeling and humility.That feeling has been generated in some scientists or mathematicians. But it is not necessary. Great scientists have been atheists, theists, pantheist according to their biases. Godel was a theist, Einstein was a pantheist and Dirac was a atheist, so it is clear that &quot;intelligent&quot; people in science also do not agree on everything. In fact, their bias can be function of their conditioning and experiences. In Newton and Gauss&#039;s time, most intelligent people were theists. 

I personally believe that if one genuinely investigates nature and its complexity, it must invoke humility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Science cannot directly tell about God. God has transcendent and imminent aspects and hints towards his imminence can be found in science. That is only for a person with that feeling and humility.That feeling has been generated in some scientists or mathematicians. But it is not necessary. Great scientists have been atheists, theists, pantheist according to their biases. Godel was a theist, Einstein was a pantheist and Dirac was a atheist, so it is clear that &#8220;intelligent&#8221; people in science also do not agree on everything. In fact, their bias can be function of their conditioning and experiences. In Newton and Gauss&#8217;s time, most intelligent people were theists. </p>
<p>I personally believe that if one genuinely investigates nature and its complexity, it must invoke humility.</p>
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		<title>By: Living Entity</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/review-seeking-god-in-science/comment-page-1/#comment-1836</link>
		<dc:creator>Living Entity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2653#comment-1836</guid>
		<description>The web of material illusion is so complex, cunning and intricate that mundane science can never prove or disprove &quot;God&quot;. Material illusion is so crafty and deceiving that even the attempts to find Intelligent Design in nature can leave one in doubt.

The attempts to scientifically establish a theistic origin of the universe must necessarily fail, due to the insurmountable power of material energy.

Theistic beliefs must stand on faith alone. Due to the transcendental position of the Absolute, there is no possible way to verify or prove scientifically His existence and supreme dominion over all that be.

Again, I would say that material science, as we know it today, is so much an integral aspect of the vicious exploitation and destruction of the material environment, that I don&#039;t believe that Gaudiya Vaishnavas should partake of the principally Evangelical Christian movement that promotes intelligent design of the world.

Scientifically, the material illusion contains enough evidence that there is NO God and no intelligent design that it becomes an exercise on futility to try and find God scientifically.

God can only be found through faith and devotional life.
Science ultimately becomes the enemy of theism.

If we look at all the imperfections of this world and all the bad, evil and ignorant aspects of material existence, it really brings us to question how a good, loving God could possibly allow his children to get themselves into so much trouble.

The conditioned living beings in the material world are so imperfect and so fallible that we really have to question how a good and loving God could allow them to suffer so much in this world which is described as an ocean of sorrows.

That there is a good and loving God behind the material creation is in fact a very hard case to make when we come to understand all the misery, pain and suffering we see all around us and which we are also a part of.

So, personally, I have abandoned any and all ideas of proving the existence of God through any sort of scientific observations or results.
There appears to be intelligent design, but if we face the facts and observe all the suffering and misery in this world, we must honestly admit that the concept of intelligent design, if it exists, also includes a supremely intelligently designed torture chamber with which to imprison disintegrated parts of the supreme spirit.

It is much easier to see religion and theism as valuable for it&#039;s good works and harmony with nature than to try and prove it&#039;s worth by scientifically proving the existence of God.

The best science could possibly do is somehow discover a field of non-material light energy that pervades all matter, but then again that does not prove the existence of a transcendental autocratic living being that is the origin and maintainer of the universe.

In the end, we have to abandon material science in our efforts to find &quot;God&quot;.
In the end, the only thing that really helps humankind find God is faith and faith alone.

Modern science is the tool of material illusion that simply takes one deeper and deeper into illusion until all hope and faith is lost.

Modern science cannot advance the cause of religiosity.
Modern science is founded on exploration and exploitation of the material energy.
We can never find God in this material illusion.
God has intelligently designed it that way.

Gaudiya Vaishnavas should most certainly distance themselves from the Intelligent Design movement that belongs to pseudo religionists
who in fact preach a bigoted and prejudiced religious system.

Srimad Bhagavatam is the scientific exposition on the Absolute Truth.
Vaishnavas should keep to their ways and avoid getting involved the bogus and sentimental efforts to prove God through scientific research.

Srila Prabhupada seemed to encourage certain disciples to prove God scientifically, but in fact science has gotten so deep into the labyrinth of illusion since the passing of Srila Prabhupada that there is no hope that science can support religion. At this point it is best just to abandon pseudo-science as a useful tool for religionists.

Maya is meant for the express purpose of concealing &quot;God&quot;. Science cannot find God within a field of energy that God designed to conceal himself with.
Trying to find God in the material illusion is like trying to find the Sun deep within a coal mine.
If you want to find the Sun, you must get out of the coal mine and look up to the sky in the daylight.
God is found through faith and devotion.
Science is useless for proving the existence of God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The web of material illusion is so complex, cunning and intricate that mundane science can never prove or disprove &#8220;God&#8221;. Material illusion is so crafty and deceiving that even the attempts to find Intelligent Design in nature can leave one in doubt.</p>
<p>The attempts to scientifically establish a theistic origin of the universe must necessarily fail, due to the insurmountable power of material energy.</p>
<p>Theistic beliefs must stand on faith alone. Due to the transcendental position of the Absolute, there is no possible way to verify or prove scientifically His existence and supreme dominion over all that be.</p>
<p>Again, I would say that material science, as we know it today, is so much an integral aspect of the vicious exploitation and destruction of the material environment, that I don&#8217;t believe that Gaudiya Vaishnavas should partake of the principally Evangelical Christian movement that promotes intelligent design of the world.</p>
<p>Scientifically, the material illusion contains enough evidence that there is NO God and no intelligent design that it becomes an exercise on futility to try and find God scientifically.</p>
<p>God can only be found through faith and devotional life.<br />
Science ultimately becomes the enemy of theism.</p>
<p>If we look at all the imperfections of this world and all the bad, evil and ignorant aspects of material existence, it really brings us to question how a good, loving God could possibly allow his children to get themselves into so much trouble.</p>
<p>The conditioned living beings in the material world are so imperfect and so fallible that we really have to question how a good and loving God could allow them to suffer so much in this world which is described as an ocean of sorrows.</p>
<p>That there is a good and loving God behind the material creation is in fact a very hard case to make when we come to understand all the misery, pain and suffering we see all around us and which we are also a part of.</p>
<p>So, personally, I have abandoned any and all ideas of proving the existence of God through any sort of scientific observations or results.<br />
There appears to be intelligent design, but if we face the facts and observe all the suffering and misery in this world, we must honestly admit that the concept of intelligent design, if it exists, also includes a supremely intelligently designed torture chamber with which to imprison disintegrated parts of the supreme spirit.</p>
<p>It is much easier to see religion and theism as valuable for it&#8217;s good works and harmony with nature than to try and prove it&#8217;s worth by scientifically proving the existence of God.</p>
<p>The best science could possibly do is somehow discover a field of non-material light energy that pervades all matter, but then again that does not prove the existence of a transcendental autocratic living being that is the origin and maintainer of the universe.</p>
<p>In the end, we have to abandon material science in our efforts to find &#8220;God&#8221;.<br />
In the end, the only thing that really helps humankind find God is faith and faith alone.</p>
<p>Modern science is the tool of material illusion that simply takes one deeper and deeper into illusion until all hope and faith is lost.</p>
<p>Modern science cannot advance the cause of religiosity.<br />
Modern science is founded on exploration and exploitation of the material energy.<br />
We can never find God in this material illusion.<br />
God has intelligently designed it that way.</p>
<p>Gaudiya Vaishnavas should most certainly distance themselves from the Intelligent Design movement that belongs to pseudo religionists<br />
who in fact preach a bigoted and prejudiced religious system.</p>
<p>Srimad Bhagavatam is the scientific exposition on the Absolute Truth.<br />
Vaishnavas should keep to their ways and avoid getting involved the bogus and sentimental efforts to prove God through scientific research.</p>
<p>Srila Prabhupada seemed to encourage certain disciples to prove God scientifically, but in fact science has gotten so deep into the labyrinth of illusion since the passing of Srila Prabhupada that there is no hope that science can support religion. At this point it is best just to abandon pseudo-science as a useful tool for religionists.</p>
<p>Maya is meant for the express purpose of concealing &#8220;God&#8221;. Science cannot find God within a field of energy that God designed to conceal himself with.<br />
Trying to find God in the material illusion is like trying to find the Sun deep within a coal mine.<br />
If you want to find the Sun, you must get out of the coal mine and look up to the sky in the daylight.<br />
God is found through faith and devotion.<br />
Science is useless for proving the existence of God.</p>
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		<title>By: Gaura-Vijaya dasa</title>
		<link>http://harmonist.us/2009/09/review-seeking-god-in-science/comment-page-1/#comment-1829</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaura-Vijaya dasa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 04:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harmonist.us/?p=2653#comment-1829</guid>
		<description>I think that the main point is that science inherently has a bias towards the naturalistic explanation of all phenomenon because it is easier to fit the empirical model. I would like debates to focus on the philosophy of science and then find out the scope of proving things through the scientific method. 
There are difference kinds of ID and fine tuning arguments and the cosmological fine tuning arguments are currently more persuasive. Somehow people do accept that there is no explanation for many things and they can live with it. In one sense, ultimately the why question cannot be answered. Why does God engage in lila or sport? Play or joy has no reason ultimately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the main point is that science inherently has a bias towards the naturalistic explanation of all phenomenon because it is easier to fit the empirical model. I would like debates to focus on the philosophy of science and then find out the scope of proving things through the scientific method.<br />
There are difference kinds of ID and fine tuning arguments and the cosmological fine tuning arguments are currently more persuasive. Somehow people do accept that there is no explanation for many things and they can live with it. In one sense, ultimately the why question cannot be answered. Why does God engage in lila or sport? Play or joy has no reason ultimately.</p>
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