Comments on: Mahadeva Siva and Vaishnavism http://harmonist.us/2010/02/mahadeva-siva-and-vaishnavism/ Tue, 07 Feb 2012 01:29:32 +0000 hourly 1 By: Vikram Ramsoondur http://harmonist.us/2010/02/mahadeva-siva-and-vaishnavism/comment-page-1/#comment-11607 Vikram Ramsoondur Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:50:03 +0000 http://harmonist.us/?p=4391#comment-11607 I'm unsure as to the exact original source of the verse, but have variously read that it either derived from some Upanishad or alternatively, came from Shankaracharya. Yet, in the ultimate analysis, that matters little. It remains a beautiful and inspiring shloka, and I for one am appreciative of it on that lone score, irrespective of whether it originates in an ancient or medieval text. Regards Vik I’m unsure as to the exact original source of the verse, but have variously read that it either derived from some Upanishad or alternatively, came from Shankaracharya. Yet, in the ultimate analysis, that matters little. It remains a beautiful and inspiring shloka, and I for one am appreciative of it on that lone score, irrespective of whether it originates in an ancient or medieval text.

Regards
Vik

]]> By: carthick shivam http://harmonist.us/2010/02/mahadeva-siva-and-vaishnavism/comment-page-1/#comment-11592 carthick shivam Tue, 17 Jan 2012 12:08:59 +0000 http://harmonist.us/?p=4391#comment-11592 hello namaste, this is carthick shivam from chennai, plz tell me that sloga which is akashat patitam is from where (veda or bagavat gita or else where) plz let me know as soon as possibel waiting for ur reply sir, thanks and regards hello namaste,
this is carthick shivam from chennai, plz tell me that sloga which is akashat patitam is from where (veda or bagavat gita or else where) plz let me know as soon as possibel waiting for ur reply sir,
thanks and regards

]]> By: Dr.Rajamurthy http://harmonist.us/2010/02/mahadeva-siva-and-vaishnavism/comment-page-1/#comment-11568 Dr.Rajamurthy Sat, 07 Jan 2012 15:19:39 +0000 http://harmonist.us/?p=4391#comment-11568 Though my scholarship is like a drop in the big ocean, my huble limited knowledge submission is that the chants of Shiva are in the NARAYANOPANISHAT. The strong dislike Vaishanvites had/have towards shaivism is rooted in the demonic approach adopted by the kings to force shaivism on those who took the path of Vishnu. Even Ramanujacharya had to escape to the neighbouring Mysore state and many of his disciples were tortured. These animositie towards each other were strong and at present things are changing. These days you can see a Vinayaka in the shrine of Venkateshwara. Though my scholarship is like a drop in the big ocean, my huble limited knowledge submission is that the chants of Shiva are in the NARAYANOPANISHAT.
The strong dislike Vaishanvites had/have towards shaivism is rooted in the demonic approach adopted by the kings to force shaivism on those
who took the path of Vishnu. Even Ramanujacharya had to escape to the neighbouring Mysore state and many of his disciples were tortured.

These animositie towards each other were strong and at present things are changing. These days you can see a Vinayaka in the shrine of Venkateshwara.

]]> By: Vikram Ramsoondur http://harmonist.us/2010/02/mahadeva-siva-and-vaishnavism/comment-page-1/#comment-8608 Vikram Ramsoondur Mon, 07 Feb 2011 07:22:14 +0000 http://harmonist.us/?p=4391#comment-8608 Alex, that depends on what sort of explanation you're after, one to strengthen your Vaishnava convictions or an independently-thought/realised exposé to make you try thinking a tad differently about this most mysterious and intriguing of divinities. For my part, I draw my knowledge of Shiva and Shakti from mainstream Hinduism as well as from Shaiva and Shakta authorities, i.e. those who have spent their entire lifetime serving these deities; in the exact same way that I wouldn't go to a Shaivite if I wanted to understand the glories of Lord Vishnu or Krishna, Vaishnava sources are not the best resource for one to tap, if gaining a proper understanding and appreciation of Mahadeva is the actual objective. As for the standard Chaitanyite response to questions about Shiva's identity and position, perhaps you'd find this rather informative, and to your liking: http://www.purebhakti.com/teachers/bhakti-discourses-mainmenu-61/18-discourses-1990s/135-siva-tattva.html Alex, that depends on what sort of explanation you’re after, one to strengthen your Vaishnava convictions or an independently-thought/realised exposé to make you try thinking a tad differently about this most mysterious and intriguing of divinities. For my part, I draw my knowledge of Shiva and Shakti from mainstream Hinduism as well as from Shaiva and Shakta authorities, i.e. those who have spent their entire lifetime serving these deities; in the exact same way that I wouldn’t go to a Shaivite if I wanted to understand the glories of Lord Vishnu or Krishna, Vaishnava sources are not the best resource for one to tap, if gaining a proper understanding and appreciation of Mahadeva is the actual objective.

As for the standard Chaitanyite response to questions about Shiva’s identity and position, perhaps you’d find this rather informative, and to your liking:
http://www.purebhakti.com/teachers/bhakti-discourses-mainmenu-61/18-discourses-1990s/135-siva-tattva.html

]]> By: alex http://harmonist.us/2010/02/mahadeva-siva-and-vaishnavism/comment-page-1/#comment-8599 alex Sun, 06 Feb 2011 01:23:42 +0000 http://harmonist.us/?p=4391#comment-8599 "Look at it like this: Krsna has a deluding potency that functions in relation to the spiritual and material worlds. Keep it simple." Thank you for this - it is an excellent explanation and makes a lot of sense. Could you also explain the position of Lord Shiva in such simple terms? I have heard many conflicting explanations about his position. In Bhagavatam there is the story of Rudra being born from Lord Brahma's anger. Is this describing the birth of Lord Shiva? Is Lord Shiva Vishnu tattva? Jiva tattva? What is the significance of Shiva taking the ganges on his head? “Look at it like this: Krsna has a deluding potency that functions in relation to the spiritual and material worlds. Keep it simple.”

Thank you for this – it is an excellent explanation and makes a lot of sense.

Could you also explain the position of Lord Shiva in such simple terms? I have heard many conflicting explanations about his position. In Bhagavatam there is the story of Rudra being born from Lord Brahma’s anger. Is this describing the birth of Lord Shiva?

Is Lord Shiva Vishnu tattva? Jiva tattva? What is the significance of Shiva taking the ganges on his head?

]]> By: Sagar http://harmonist.us/2010/02/mahadeva-siva-and-vaishnavism/comment-page-1/#comment-8592 Sagar Thu, 03 Feb 2011 12:37:55 +0000 http://harmonist.us/?p=4391#comment-8592 On Draupadi marrying the Five Pandavas: The same question was asked by Draupadi's father to Vyasadeva, after which Vyasadev narrated the story of who the Pandavas were, and what is the position of Draupadi.The story can be found in the Mahabharata translation at Sacred Texts by Kishan Mohan Ganguli.Its quite interesting. Additional explanation is also given by Sri Madhvacarya in his commentary on Mahabharata, Mahabharata-Tatparya Nirnaya. On Draupadi marrying the Five Pandavas: The same question was asked by Draupadi’s father to Vyasadeva, after which Vyasadev narrated the story of who the Pandavas were, and what is the position of Draupadi.The story can be found in the Mahabharata translation at Sacred Texts by Kishan Mohan Ganguli.Its quite interesting.
Additional explanation is also given by Sri Madhvacarya in his commentary on Mahabharata, Mahabharata-Tatparya Nirnaya.

]]> By: RadhaKrishna http://harmonist.us/2010/02/mahadeva-siva-and-vaishnavism/comment-page-1/#comment-4369 RadhaKrishna Sat, 08 May 2010 21:51:37 +0000 http://harmonist.us/?p=4391#comment-4369 Here's a good explanation on Subhadra as well: http://www.bvashram.org/articles/64/1/Sri-Puri-Jagannatha-and-Subhadra-Devi/Page1.html Subhadra Devi is Lord Krishna's internal shakti, yoga-maya. She is the facilitator of devotional service, and makes all arrangements for the devotees to serve Lord Krishna. The internal (spiritual) energy of Lord Krishna and the external (material) energy of Lord Krishna are ultimately the same divine potency acting in two different functions. Srila Prabhupada explains that just as electricty can power both a heater and refrigerator (which have oposite effective qualities), in the same way, the one divine energy of the Lord acts to either cover the living entities spiritual knowledge of the Lord, or reveal the presence of the Lord. When that energy acts as a curtain to cover the view of the Lord, it is termed as Mahamaya (material energy). When that same divine energy acts to open the curtain and reveal the Lord's form, it is known as Yogamaya (spiritual energy). Subhadra Devi is the internal spiritual energy of the Lord, she is not connected with the three modes of material nature. Durga devi is also known as Bhadra, which is her form for controlling the three modes of nature. When the divine energy acts on a higher spiritual platform, she is known as Subhadra. Subhadra is distinct from Bhadra, in that her only function is in facilitating devotional service to Lord Krishna. She is never in contact with the material energy. Here’s a good explanation on Subhadra as well:
http://www.bvashram.org/articles/64/1/Sri-Puri-Jagannatha-and-Subhadra-Devi/Page1.html

Subhadra Devi is Lord Krishna’s internal shakti, yoga-maya. She is the facilitator of devotional service, and makes all arrangements for the devotees to serve Lord Krishna.

The internal (spiritual) energy of Lord Krishna and the external (material) energy of Lord Krishna are ultimately the same divine potency acting in two different functions. Srila Prabhupada explains that just as electricty can power both a heater and refrigerator (which have oposite effective qualities), in the same way, the one divine energy of the Lord acts to either cover the living entities spiritual knowledge of the Lord, or reveal the presence of the Lord. When that energy acts as a curtain to cover the view of the Lord, it is termed as Mahamaya (material energy). When that same divine energy acts to open the curtain and reveal the Lord’s form, it is known as Yogamaya (spiritual energy). Subhadra Devi is the internal spiritual energy of the Lord, she is not connected with the three modes of material nature.

Durga devi is also known as Bhadra, which is her form for controlling the three modes of nature. When the divine energy acts on a higher spiritual platform, she is known as Subhadra.
Subhadra is distinct from Bhadra, in that her only function is in facilitating devotional service to Lord Krishna. She is never in contact with the material energy.

]]> By: Kula-pavana http://harmonist.us/2010/02/mahadeva-siva-and-vaishnavism/comment-page-1/#comment-3854 Kula-pavana Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:07:02 +0000 http://harmonist.us/?p=4391#comment-3854 Thank you, I see it better now. Still, the use of the term 'deluding potency' implies some serious complexity. Is delusion really the most basic principle and function of those energies? Anyway, going back to the main topic, I really enjoyed reading Sri Sivastakam - Eight prayers glorifying Lord Siva, spoken by Sriman Mahaprabhu as recorded in Murari Gupta's "Sri Caitanya Carita Mahakavya", not something devotees often talk about. Thank you, I see it better now.
Still, the use of the term ‘deluding potency’ implies some serious complexity. Is delusion really the most basic principle and function of those energies?

Anyway, going back to the main topic, I really enjoyed reading Sri Sivastakam – Eight prayers glorifying Lord Siva, spoken by Sriman Mahaprabhu as recorded in Murari Gupta’s “Sri
Caitanya Carita Mahakavya”, not something devotees often talk about.

]]> By: swami bv tripurari http://harmonist.us/2010/02/mahadeva-siva-and-vaishnavism/comment-page-1/#comment-3852 swami bv tripurari Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:47:31 +0000 http://harmonist.us/?p=4391#comment-3852 This is what I meant by keeping it simple: <blockquote>Look at it like this: Krsna has a deluding potency that functions in relation to the spiritual and material worlds. Keep it simple.</blockquote> The rest of the post was an example of how quickly it gets complicated. This is what I meant by keeping it simple:

Look at it like this: Krsna has a deluding potency that functions in relation to the spiritual and material worlds. Keep it simple.

The rest of the post was an example of how quickly it gets complicated.

]]> By: Kula-pavana http://harmonist.us/2010/02/mahadeva-siva-and-vaishnavism/comment-page-1/#comment-3851 Kula-pavana Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:43:16 +0000 http://harmonist.us/?p=4391#comment-3851 Maharaja writes: "In that passage Prabhupada is referring to Yogamaya as Krsna’s primary or internal deluding sakti as opposed to his secondary external deluding potency. But she is both in the ultimate issue. Look at it like this: Krsna has a deluding potency that functions in relation to the spiritual and material worlds. <strong>Keep it simple</strong>. Otherwise it quickly gets complicated: Yogamaya is Krsna’s sister and Siva’s wife and Vrinda-devi, Paurnamasi, Advaita’s wife Sita, and a host of other persons related to samvit (enlightened delusion) of the antaranga-sakti as well as the entire bahiranga-sakti (unenlightened delusion) . . . the word yogamaya is used to describe either deluding influence, for example, in the Gita 7.25, depending on the commentary one reads." If that is keeping it simple, I would hate to get a real technical explanation.... ;) I sort of prefer the 'traditional Hindu' explanations, where all these personalities are explained as manifestations of the eternal male and female principles. Lord Shiva is personification of the male principle of this material world, his wife is personification of the female principle, while Lord Vishnu (or in our case Lord Krsna) is the overall male principle of the entire creation and his consort is the female principle. Maharaja writes:

“In that passage Prabhupada is referring to Yogamaya as Krsna’s primary or internal deluding sakti as opposed to his secondary external deluding potency. But she is both in the ultimate issue. Look at it like this: Krsna has a deluding potency that functions in relation to the spiritual and material worlds. Keep it simple. Otherwise it quickly gets complicated: Yogamaya is Krsna’s sister and Siva’s wife and Vrinda-devi, Paurnamasi, Advaita’s wife Sita, and a host of other persons related to samvit (enlightened delusion) of the antaranga-sakti as well as the entire bahiranga-sakti (unenlightened delusion) . . . the word yogamaya is used to describe either deluding influence, for example, in the Gita 7.25, depending on the commentary one reads.”

If that is keeping it simple, I would hate to get a real technical explanation…. ;)

I sort of prefer the ‘traditional Hindu’ explanations, where all these personalities are explained as manifestations of the eternal male and female principles. Lord Shiva is personification of the male principle of this material world, his wife is personification of the female principle, while Lord Vishnu (or in our case Lord Krsna) is the overall male principle of the entire creation and his consort is the female principle.

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